Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Hi, I'm Mike Simmons, the founder of Astronomy for Equity, and welcome to our podcast. Today we have Yumna Majid from Lahore, Pakistan, who has been doing outreach and education in astronomy for a very long time and has come a long way. She's done quite a few different things, and we'll talk to her about how her path has changed through the years as well. So welcome. Yumna. So good to have you here.
[00:00:28] Speaker B: Likewise. It's good to see you after a long time.
[00:00:31] Speaker A: Yes, it's been a long time. We've had contact here and there, but we're pretty much on opposite sides of the earth here, 12 hours apart right now. So morning here and evening there. You've been very busy with. With all the things that you've been doing in la. So tell us how you got started, what drove you, and maybe how things have changed a bit.
[00:00:56] Speaker B: I always wanted to be an astronaut. I was born with this innate curiosity that I wanted to see what's outside our planet. I wanted to explore what lies beyond the blue sky of our planet. But in my community, or let's say, my home, I had no access to, maybe you can say, storybooks or maybe documentaries or educational toys where I could learn more about space. And there were no platforms around me where I could. Where my parents could have taken me and I could explore. So there were quite a few incidents in my life where I partisi. I tried my best to participate in something slightly relevant to space, but it didn't work out.
But I remember when I was in class 9th, so 1, and this is the answer to that specific question that you asked, that what drove me to do what I do today is when I was in my class nine, I was in the excellent section, which means that the students who get the highest grades. And I studied in a public school, and our science teacher was asking everybody, what do they want to become? So, traditionally, all girls wanted to be a doctor, because in our country, to become a doctor or an engineer are the only prestigious professions. They were considered the most prestigious professions. And when I stood up and I said, I want to be an astronaut, the classroom full of 60 girls were like, what is an astronaut? So my teacher explained the whole class, what is an astronaut? And then she said that there is no such thing as space. If you try to go up there, you will die. There is nothing outside. Yeah. So I was discouraged. I couldn't defend myself because I was just a small girl, but I was discouraged. I could never make friends in that classroom. And later on, I changed my section I moved from excellent A section down to D section. And I was playing normally with my friends when an ex classmate came and said, hey Yumna, it's that you? And yeah, it's me. Why are you inquiring like that? She said, but you're normal. I said yeah, I'm a normal person, why are you saying like this? And my friends who were playing with me, they started laughing that what sort of question is this, that you're normal? And she said that since you had a dream to go to a place which does not even existed, we thought that you're a mentally disabled child.
That was the moment of enlightenment for me. I always knew that there are no platforms around me for space and astronomy. And even if there exists a small, tiny platform, it is not in my reach or it is not welcoming towards people from all sorts of backgrounds. I already knew that. But that specific moment for a 14 year old yumna, that was enlightenment towards the role of a teacher in building or breaking dreams of their own students. And that is the time when I decided that once I grow up I'm going to do something about it. And it's been more than eight years now. I am doing what I decided at that time. And the only thing I got access to was the Internet. When I got Internet we used to have like dedicated time. So all of us siblings used to have dedicated time on computer. So I had only two things to do. I used to either play video games like need for Speed or GDA or I used to search about planets. I used to read Wikipedia pages of astronauts that what degrees they have done so that I can do. And then I got onto Facebook. I joined different groups, mostly astrophotography groups. I got to meet a lot of space enthusiasts just like me, but way older than me. I was just a kid, but we became friends and they were mostly European and American. And that's how I got to know about you, Mike. So yeah, it's been a great, beautiful journey.
[00:05:19] Speaker A: That's extraordinary. Now I have to ask about this view that space is not a place that exists. It's not a majority view in Pakistan, I don't think.
[00:05:30] Speaker B: Oh no, no, no. That was like years ago and I would not blame anybody for it because unfortunately we do not have that quality of education over here so that people could learn about it. And at the same time I will never say that my.
I don't put the blame on my teacher or her ignorance because maybe she couldn't get that quality education so that she could actually understand what space is. And that is not the general view of people in Pakistan now, thanks God to Elon Musk and launching big rockets. Enough marketing has been done by SpaceX and NASA that all people know about space. And now when I go to different schools. So when I started, I was only 18 years old and I used to literally knock the doors of schools and tell them that I just want to debunk the Mets about solar system. And they were afraid initially that you might distract over students and astronomy is merely a hobby and not everybody can afford astronomy because we cannot have telescopes. So I had to, you know, I don't know what to say. I had to just make them realize that I am not telling them something about, it's not out of their books. A solar system chapter is the maximum thing we have about space in our curriculum. So I'm just going to talk about that. That's how I started. And now when I go to schools, there are kids who are already interested in space and they watch content on YouTube, on social media, and they are the ones who tell me things about black holes, about exoplanets and about dwarf planets. And I don't know, at the same time, there are kids who know so much history about rockets and they know how Soviet build rockets and they know then how they moved building bigger and bigger rockets. So it's always a player. I am, I am happy that my students, wherever I go, if it's a classroom full of 20 kids and even if there are two kids who can just make me quite by giving me constant information on space, I am more than happy. I don't, I don't, I don't shush them. I just let them speak. I just let them talk because I know they learned so much. And still we do not have a platform, for example, a museum, an observatory or a planetarium where they can go and engage with, you know, science communicators and tour guides in the museums. But I'm, I'm starting there slowly. I'm just trying to provide them a small platform to do that.
[00:08:27] Speaker A: Yeah, that's absolutely. And, and your role model for the younger people now, as, as you know, you've worked on your whole life, those younger kids who come up with all the answers for everything, they're role models too. I mean, that's, you know, now it's, it's cool to be a nerd. I mean, so that's, that's really good. So I want to ask you about one thing you just said.
No museums about space, no planetariums, Are you talking about Laur or the whole country overall?
[00:09:03] Speaker B: Whole country.
So we don't have observatories where people can just go and have access to telescope and just use it at the same time. We don't have planetariums either.
We used to have planetariums like ages ago but now they are not functioning at all. The show they play and it's like way old. They need a lot of maintenance. Basically they are, they are associated with the national airline company and they don't have any funds or anything. I mean you can understand from the situation that I am someone who runs a non for profit. I never had a salary on my own and every time I make it to any TV interview I start getting calls from these people that please give us funding. And I'm like, it's the seats are full of dust and whatnot. And the show that being put is like ages, ages ago. I wish I could just improve it one day and I could like bring more space stuff. Because whenever I go to a different country I don't go to famous tourist spot. I prefer to go to museums, planetariums and observatories. So my most fascinating and memorable time is always spent in a planetarium. Recently when I was in US I visited Cosmosphere. It is in, it is in Kansas State. So I cried, I cried after watching that Destination to Mars show. And I was just wondering if I wish I could give that same experience to my kids in Pakistan. And same goes for museums. Like space museums is like way far. We don't have engaging science museums and there is one which is being built upon but it's like far far away in the south. It's a really great project. I'm really happy that it's happen happening. But one is not enough, you mean? I know, but yes, I am trying to solve that. So I have one of the program with the name of Traveling Space Tele. Traveling Space Museum.
So what I do in that is I take my telescopes that I have and I have then a set of meteorites. So I was gifted some meteorites by a friend and what I did, even though like they're smaller than my thumb, they're like small samples including a piece of lunar meteorite, a Martian meteorite and a rock that actually fell in Balochistan inside Pakistan.
So I made an exhibit. It's like boxes and it's just like curating an exhibition, curating some rocks. So I make their cases and big boxes and we go to different schools, we put that exhibition over there like the space Rocks, like something real that fell from space, and kids can see them. They can have that experience, and they can look through the telescope and have that real space experience.
Next, we need to add, like, a lot more experiences, which is like one. An inflatable planetarium. That would be a dream come true for me right now because I want kids to feel what I feel every time I go to a planetarium. And for an educator, someone like me, an inflatable planetarium is a great, great, great resource because you can just pack it in a suitcase and you just take it to another city or to another school and just then throw the show. And then comes the. We are set. We want to add that.
I have completely no idea how I'm going to do that, but I really want to do that, because if I'm just going to a school and sharing my telescopes and space rocks with 500 kids at a time, or 1,000 kids at a time, why not to also offer them sanitarium, to give them the whole museum experience? I know I cannot have a building, but I can go to their building and create a temporary museum that's better.
[00:13:25] Speaker A: In a lot of ways because there are places I know of in countries where people can't get to the cities to go to those museums or planetariums. And so taking astronomy to them, taking those experiences to them is the only way to do it. So that's. That's what's good about the inflatable portable planetarium and going out to these places there. I have a lot of plans. Too many things that involves empowering people and supporting them to be able to do all these things exactly as you're talking about here. And, you know, a couple things. You mentioned astronomy. What is that good for? It's a hobby. And I've. I dealt with that my whole life. This has changed quite a bit here because people are seeing so much more about what happens in space now. And, and they, they get it when I talk about the importance of it as an introduction to STEM education and things like that. But that's our goal here on this podcast, is to show people all the ways in which astronomy is being used around the world. And you're just a shining example of that in one of many, many in all countries where people are doing this to improve the lives of people, to give them a future, to improve communities that are otherwise excluded. It's. It's all part of the same thing. So. So this is, this is wonderful what, what you are doing in Pakistan, too. And we want to be able People to be able to see all these different ways that people are doing it and to give you a voice because, you know, with publicity you've had a lot of it and sometimes it leads to something good.
[00:15:07] Speaker B: Yeah, always it does.
[00:15:09] Speaker A: Yeah, that's true. Yeah, so, so maybe so I wouldn't rule out having that building someday. But you know, the portable planetarium and the telescopes and so on are really good as they are. Let me, let's share some of the, some images of some of the things that you have done over time as well. And oh, so this is, this is wonderful here, showing the planets in the orbits and so on with some girls. I see there are more standing in the background there, but the. They're really engaged, obviously fascinated by this. Yeah, this is a girl school. And I want to ask you too, you mentioned that you were in school with all the girls. Is all education in Pakistan separate, boys and girls or is there co ed also?
[00:16:02] Speaker B: There are different schools. That is, that is different. So all the public schools which are by government, the boys and girls campuses are separate. But then there are so many schools which are co education and our universities are also co education. Boys and girls get education together. And about this picture, I just want to add that this chart of solar system that I have in my head actually made by these two girls and they were just asking for feedback that how they made it. And I was just appreciating that. They did a great job.
[00:16:38] Speaker A: It's wonderful. Yeah, it's fabulous. So, and here is, here is a whole class.
It's all girls. That. And this is most very common in many countries around the world. Those of us in the United States are not used to as much schools having school uniforms like this. But, but they clearly. This is a school uniform.
[00:17:03] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:17:04] Speaker A: Some will put the scarf over their heads, some do not. That's.
[00:17:08] Speaker B: Yeah, it's. It's their choice. It's their choice. It's their family's choice. You never know what's going on. But yeah, about this picture, they're all having a book which we called is the Urdu translation of Space News.
So this was an English magazine and we translated it into Urdu and distributed a few copies among teachers and students who do not have access to Internet and who do not have very close or very good English literacy because there is not a lot of spatial and astronomy content in our own language and English is not our native language. So there should be content where all type of people from all type of backgrounds feel comfortable in learning about astronomy. So that was one of Our project, and we distributed some copies and the girls got them.
[00:18:14] Speaker A: Yeah, that's wonderful. And English, your English is perfect. There's a lot of English spoken in Pakistan, but among the more educated people, I think wealthier. But it's not a common language.
[00:18:26] Speaker B: Or now it is getting common because it is also one of our official language, basically.
[00:18:33] Speaker A: Oh, it is an official language. Okay.
[00:18:35] Speaker B: Yeah. So most of the time, like if you go to offices, all the email communication, all the official documents, all of that is actually done in Urdu. Most. Sorry, in English. Most of that is done in English and some of it is also done in Urdu. So it's mix of both. And I mean, all the books that I had in my university, in my, in my medical college, they were all in English. So most of the books that are being taught in the university are in English. So no matter what, students do get to learn and improve their English time to time. About Me I believe I have learned my English, number one, from Hollywood movies and number two, being friends with people like you since a very early age when I joined Facebook and made a lot of American and European friends and I get to talk to them. My written, my spoken English got really, really improved. My English was not good initially at all.
[00:19:40] Speaker A: I know in India, English is also an official language, one of 16, I think. But in many places that I've traveled in India, I haven't been to Pakistan yet, but absolutely want to. Most people didn't speak English. It was more the official language or government language. But the regional languages are what they spoke in there. And not all Hindi either.
[00:20:04] Speaker B: Yeah, over here, people generally speak in English. I mean, speak in Urdu. I'm so sorry, I'm messing it up. At homes or in normal conversations, we speak in Urdu, which is our own language. For example, there are news and there are television channels and all the media communications that is done in Urdu. But again, then the education part and the documents, emailing, communication, all that is majorly done in English. And also now people like, most of the people, they are studying abroad or they have started remote jobs for which they need to know English. So yeah, they are, they are improving the people who want to learn, they always learn.
[00:20:49] Speaker A: Yeah, that's great. And talk about role models. Okay, here they are looking at you like you are Taylor Swift.
And I know that some American pop idols, you will know who they are. So I don't worry about reference.
But yeah, you, you are their role model here. That's for sure.
[00:21:17] Speaker B: Yeah, it was actually, it was end of the session. The school was off but these girls still wanted to talk.
And some of them left. And this bunch of the girls were still there. And the three girls were standing in front of me.
They were sharing their idea. All of them wanted to be a. Be a scientist. And they said that they want to invent a refrigerator which can work without electricity.
So, yeah, I was actually amazed because even if saying and them having a realization that they want to invent something is really good, that is very courageous, I, at their age, was not that courageous that I'm gonna discover something and I'm gonna INV. New. But I'm so glad that they have some very good teachers at their school who. Who put that curiosity and confident confidence among these girls.
[00:22:22] Speaker A: Fabulous. So here's one that shows, first of all, some of your volunteers, but it shows that it's not all women.
And again, some in hijab, some not. And you've got more men than women in this picture here.
[00:22:41] Speaker B: Yeah, that's again, I would love to have more girls on my team, but it totally depends on who applies and who is interested in doing what.
So the girls who are sitting with me, the girl who is on the extreme right is a space sciences student. The girl next to her with the mask is a physics student. And then it's me. And then the girl who is on my left, she is a psychology student who loves space. And the girl who is on extreme left is. She's actually the youngest member of my team. She's an A level student, but she's actually also fascinated by space and she wants to do community work. So, yeah, and all the boys, they are from different backgrounds. Some are engineers, some are related to aviation or geology as well. So there is diverse background. And every time I get someone on my team, they do ask me this question that we have this different degree, but we really love space. And unfortunately, since we have done this degree, we cannot do space now. So we would love to work with you, you know, And I tell them that space is not specifically for people with physics or maths background. You can be a doctor and still join space sector. You can be an artist, you can be a lawyer, you can be an engineer, or you can be a computer specialist and still be in space. I get. I used to get frustrated initially on this fact, but now I get really sad when still undergrad students who have entire access to the Internet, they still come to me and ask me that. We really loved space, but we got into CS and now there is no way back.
[00:24:43] Speaker A: No.
[00:24:44] Speaker B: You know, And I am like, come on, how do you think the rover sent data back? How do you think these big satellites and big machines and rockets are. Are programmed?
You know, So I just feel sad that there is no concept of interdisciplinary approach in our education system.
I know things have been improved. I am very, very, very grateful. Over the last couple of years, things are getting improved. STEM is becoming part of the education ministry. They are trying to put focus. And I know big things take time, but youth who have the access of entire Internet, if you have Internet, you have the opportunities. You can just randomly Google that. I'm a CS major. How can I join space sector? You know, it's that small, tiny effort, but they don't have that in their mindset because they have been taught that if you are doing biology, you cannot do engineering. If you are, I don't know, let's say, do maths. You can no longer do the bio part. You know, they don't see the degrees intersecting. They don't see that in a space agency. There are so many professions and not only just sciences, there are arts and humanities as well. So this is what I preach a lot to my community, but there is still a lot more to do.
[00:26:19] Speaker A: Well, yeah, and it works both ways because those people who are interested in astronomy usually aren't planning on being an astronomer when they're in college, but they're fascinated by it. They're engineers, as you said, There are other things and. But they still want to do astronomy, even if that's not their main thing, because it includes everybody. But at the same time, anybody in whatever field can be involved in astronomy because it connects with everything.
You mentioned biologists, I know a lot of astrobiologists. I have no idea what they're talking about because it all has organic chemistry and things like this. Yeah, I can't follow that. Certainly physicists and I know I have known lots of astronomers who were physicists or engineers and became astronomers because they were interested in that application of what they were doing. And the other way around. I know, I know one person who came to this country from another in the Middle east who was studying to be an astronomer and she switched over to engineering because she wanted to make instruments that didn't exist. She's now working on spacecraft at jpl. So there are so many ways to go.
[00:27:34] Speaker B: Yeah, but there is also another thing, one about changing the degree. People are afraid of going back. Everyone wants to progress. So if someone has done bachelor's, they would prefer to do the masters. So, yes, there is a problem that people are unable to link that interdisciplinary Thing that they have done this degree in the past and what they can do in future, like what they can do as a master's that can connect their previous degree to the master's degree and have a space connection as well. And certainly at the same time, people who were fascinated by space and then still they chose different degrees. One of the major, major reason is that there are no jobs. So if they are doing a degree that they cannot, which cannot bring food to the table, what good that degree is going to do for them? And unfortunately, unfortunately, even the now I know a lot of you can say space science students who are done with their degrees and they're not getting jobs and they are changing careers, they are trying to get something else. They are frustrated because unfortunately our space program is not so. I mean, it's not so advanced that it can provide job opportunities to a lot of people. And then there is not a, not a lot of research going on. And whatever is going on is not open to public. So there are a lot of such reasons. And then of course, when someone is getting into a university or something, the first thing people think over here, I'm not sure about this approach in US or other countries, but passion is not given preference here. When you are getting into a degree, the first thing you assess is will this degree pay you good? Will it bring food to the table?
Will it make you, you know, will you get stable in your life? Will you get settled after doing this degree? And are there any chances of getting progress in this degree? For example, if someone is doing CS computer sciences, so now they know there is AI, there is cybersecurity, there are a lot of other things that they can go to. But if space science says, or if it's astronomy, then they don't know what jobs there are in government or private sectors that they can do. And that's why they do not take up space carrier or space degree. That's one very big problem.
[00:30:12] Speaker A: Well, that is a good reason, really. That's true here as well. There are more opportunities, but there are not nearly enough opportunities in astronomy. Many PhDs in astronomy have switched over to other things, taking advantage of the skills they've learned. A common one is using the advanced math that they've learned to go into the financial sector. They're in high demand, they make a whole lot more money, and they don't have to do a postdoc for a year or two and then move to another city and so on, trying to raise a family. So it can be very, very challenging here as well, but moving over to another profession is not always, is not as difficult as people think. Everything you learn is useful. And also, I've known a lot of PhD students who finished their degrees and decided by the time they're through with their PhD they're not interested in that field anymore and they go do something else.
[00:31:07] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:31:07] Speaker A: And some don't even finish the degree because they don't want to go through the thesis in order to get a PhD that they're not interested in.
[00:31:15] Speaker B: Yeah, that's true.
[00:31:16] Speaker A: You know, things change. I mean, life is not a straight line.
[00:31:22] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:31:23] Speaker A: More of a random walk.
But it's important that you have that viewpoint and that there be opportunities that people can see that here's something we can do and you can do that in your hobbies and so on. And so there's at least that astronomy has value in a lot of different ways. Making money doing astronomy research is not usually one of them. It's not, it's, it's, it's tough. Everywhere it's this.
[00:31:54] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:31:55] Speaker A: But it still brings you into the sciences because you know, you are inspiring young people to go into science. And they may not say, well, I want to be an astronomer because I'm going to make a lot of money. But instead of being a lawyer, you know, they may go into some other science or engineering or something that's related that they never would have done until they look through a telescope for the first time. This happens all the time.
[00:32:20] Speaker B: Yeah, it does. It does happen all the time.
[00:32:23] Speaker A: And with that I want to bring back some photos. Okay, here is love at first sight. This is new. And your first telescope?
[00:32:35] Speaker B: Yeah, that was my first telescope that I won in 2018. It was by a Belgian competition by Jean Berry and I believe I was one of the winner from their first ever contest that they started with universe awareness.
And honestly, I never imagined that I will win something. I was someone with a very low self confidence and I had to take a huge leap of faith and confidence in myself that okay, yumna, at least apply, at least apply. And I had no idea how to apply. I had very poor writing skills. But what I had was pictures of my two years work that I was doing in Pakistan. So instead of writing long essays that I have that I love space and I do this and I do that, I wrote a little bit about it. But I added, mostly I added the photos which proved that I was doing space communication or astronomy outreach without having a telescope. We live in a country or I believe everywhere. Not every time you need a Telescope. You can start without a telescope if you have books or if you have a multimedia projector or an Internet. Initially, for the two years all I did was space arts and most of the time debunking myths of solar system. And even after eight years before going to US I had to get a piece of fabric painted by young girls for astronaut Nicole Stott. And I arranged a session at a public school. It was a classroom, maybe 40, 50 girls. And when I went there, I asked them like very basic question. All of these girls were from eighth to ninth grade. And of course to break the ice, I initially asked them questions about solar system. And I was asking them question because see, solar system is something which is always in orbit.
So when I was asking them questions like a little, they were not like testing their intelligence or something, just random things to engage them. And they were all quiet. So for a few minutes I thought that they are hesitant, they are shy, they are not speaking up. And later on it became serious and I was like, guys, you know about solar system, right?
And they were all silent. It's like it is in your books. Don't you know about planets, the solar system, the things that go around the sun?
And they were all quite unfortunately. And then a girl opened one of her book and she said this thing like this, this chapter. And I was like, yeah, this is what we are going to talk about today. So I don't know the way how they are. They were being taught that chapter. They said that they are done with that chapter. But I don't know how they were taught that chapter that they could not just say, yeah, they know the solar system. And even if there is no chapter in the book, that was the level of like, I don't know what to say, general knowledge that if I'm asking, do you know solar system? They were like all quiet. If I'm saying it in Urdu, that you know, Nizami shamsi. They were, they were quite. And I don't know, a little piece of my heart just broke at that time because I know I was happy that I was maybe the first person to tell them about based off that we discussed. And at the same time I, you know, eight years, eight years is a long time. I want to tell them about rockets, I want to tell them about exoplanets, I want to tell them about black holes. But here we are still stuck at the solar system. I loved to talk about our solar system, but if someone doesn't know about their closest, closest neighborhood, how I can take them further to a Journey beyond our solar system. So there is a lot of work that needs to be done and I alone is not enough to do that. That is what I know. Because I'm at that point of my life where this slight inconvenience or any challenge frustrates me so much. And I start to reconsider that where I am putting my effort. I know it's a community service, it's a great thing, but I, being a young person, I could have invested the same amount of energy maybe in doing some other degree or. Most of the advice that I get is to leave the country and move to another country and build your carrier, you know, But I don't know. I. I have received so much love from the students and that self satisfaction that I get out of my work, it has become so much addicted. Helping others, educating others has. Have become so much addicted. I have become addicted to that feeling that you get one when you educate someone, when you help someone, that now if there is anything that can specifically help me that is specifically helped me building my career, I become hesitant. I become hesitant of doing that thing, I become hesitant of applying that thing. And that is always in the, you know, in the end of the list of like my to do list, it should have been on the top. In the case of other people, I have seen like they put their own growth at the top of it, but I have just become addicted to that feeling of telling kids about space and then receiving their vows and their fascinations. So I just love doing what I do. But at the same time I have realized that the more I am trained, the more I am good enough, the more improved quality I can provide to my students.
And I'm. I'm getting serious about it now.
[00:39:06] Speaker A: There's so many different goals in life, There are so many different rewards. And many people are. Their goal is to make more money for security for the other things that may bring them happiness.
And that's very important. But for some of us, and I share that with you because I've been doing this kind of work for 50 years.
And that reward that you talk about so eloquently, really with such feeling, that's better than money for many of us. And it's important. There are some things you have to have food and shelter and clothing, and there are some needs that we have. You're just one of those that has that as a need to see other people's lives improve through what you're doing.
And I'm afraid you're stuck with that. I don't think you're getting out of that one, but.
[00:40:03] Speaker B: Yeah, I am.
[00:40:04] Speaker A: You have made something of a career of that yourself, and you have improved and grown so much in what you've been doing. Because we've been in touch for a long time.
[00:40:13] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:40:14] Speaker A: That, you know, you. You're expanding what you're doing, and it's so important that it will be recognized more. It just is. I understand the frustration, but I. Yeah, I still have that. I'm trying to grow an organization, a new organization now without everything that I had before and without the support and the funds and. And things like that. And sometimes I think, why am I even doing this? But it's important. And I know from having been through this, it'll happen. It will happen. And you do you get frustrated because there's. You just keep seeing more and more that needs to be done, and you're doing so much more, but it seems like a tiny fraction of what can be done. Yeah, you're growing the organization, you're getting more support, and we all get impatient about doing more, and that's good because you're really driven. So here, this is my elderly, wise man, you know, advice, which is usually a private conversation, but here we're recording it. And I don't know if this will end up on the podcast. I'll let somebody else decide about that. But this is something that I've frequently talked about, you know, based on my own experience with younger people like yourself. And my goal now is to share what my experience has been with others, to encourage them and to astronomy for equity. We are focusing on exactly these things. It's not about me or us doing something. It's about helping those who are all around the world doing it, like you. So we'll be working together to collaborate and try and improve and connect you with others. This podcast will bring awareness of what you're doing. And maybe some wealthy Pakistani expat living here in the US Or Europe will see it and say, we gotta really fund this woman before she gets frustrated. And we do what we can, but that's. That's my goal, is to help you and others.
[00:42:26] Speaker B: Thank you. Thank you so much. It really means a lot because I'm someone who is very hesitant when it comes to ask for help. I find it really difficult to ask someone for help. For a long while, I worked all alone in my organization. Initially, I was a medical student. I completed my degree in 2020. So it was all me most of the time, with a very dedicated volunteer. We had a graphic designer, and then most of the stuff was done by me. And then later people started joining as a volunteer mostly help with engaging with kids in person. But yes, every time if someone comes to me and say that hey, they want to work with me and they want to volunteer or something, I find it really difficult because I really want to create opportunities for them as well. There are people with space sciences background in my team. I really wish I could actually offer them a job opportunity where they could see that their degree has a value.
But unfortunately we are not at that stage. We are not supported by any private or government funding body, nor locally, nor internationally. The telescopes that I have are either prizes of competitions or awards. The rocks that I have are a gift by a friend that I decided that everybody in Pakistan should see.
Then I get a small bunch of solar glasses off and on, a few books that we have. It's all of that is basically just some friends all over the world just like you and they just send a small box, you know that hey, we love your work and we really want to contribute how we can help you. And they will just send small goodies to distribute among students or anything that can help. But it's been eight years and now the work has expanded. You have seen how much improvement that the photos I shared with you you have seen. From where I started and where I am right now, things have expanded and people demand more. They the quality should be improved. For how long? I will keep offering workshops like the hands on workshops. But at the same time I need to offer them more experiments and I should have access to more resources instead of keep building crafty experiments. You know, I wanted to more experimental. I want to offer them a planetary human experience. I want to offer them a VR experience than them repetitively making a constellation viewer. I know kids are fascinated by that when we turn off the lights and they go woo. But that's me who has been doing it for so long and I'm like, I know every time a next batch of kids comes they get excited because it's the first time for them. But what about the elder age group? You know, maybe the high school students or maybe the university students. You should have better experiences. And we are living in the tech era, so there should be better experiences. And yeah, it's. It's not possible for us to have an inflatable planetarium or we are set or stuff like that. So yeah, if you can find Nexus Pakistani expert in US or Europe, just tell them about my work. We need support. We really need support.
[00:46:11] Speaker A: Everybody does that. That's that's my goal now, is to support everyone, because you're. You're the ones who are out there doing the work now. I'm not standing there and going classroom, standing in a field or those things anymore, just supporting the people who do these things around the world. So that's. That's my mission now. And we just continue to do what we can. So we will do our best. And hopefully, people, we also bring the view that it doesn't have to be a Pakistani. Of course many people will approve of it. It's just the way it is that we look to our own tribe first. But astronomy shows us how we're all part of the same tribe. Yeah, we are part of the same group around the world. So now I want to bring back a couple of. Just to show how far you've come. This is.
This is a presentation. You did it at iac, International Aeronautical Congress. Very big international group that has a huge conference every year. And we see all the different things that you have done there that you're talking about. Live sessions with astronauts. You've connected to space art competition, day and night, sky observations, STEAM lectures, and very, very much more. So you really have come a tremendously long way. And one of the problems is that the farther you go and the more you expand, the more you see. So your horizon seems to get farther and farther out. Yeah, but it's. We can't do everything. It's still all good. You're no longer just affecting a few kids in one classroom like before. Yeah, I don't know what else to say to encourage you, but, you know, clearly you are impressing people. Tell us about this one here.
[00:48:10] Speaker B: So this is a US Publisher. Stem to Bloom is by Zach and Zoe Adventures. It's the father who wanted to give story books and write storybooks for their kids, so they started Zack and Zoe Adventures. It's a publishing company, you can say, and they have one of their projects called Stem to Bloom magazine. And every edition is done on a specific topic. And when they got to know about my work, we were actually connected again through Facebook. And the guy was also an educator, space educator, and I was also a space educator. And he has shown my girl he has seen my growth over the couple of years. So he. He asked if we can do a collaboration and make a magazine edition all about exploration, which is the name of my organization here in Pakistan. So, yeah, that's. That's a small, tiny magazine which is all about our work in Pakistan. Pakistan. The beauty of this magazine is that it's Most of it, it's not written directly by me. It has a few pages which have my pictures turned into illustrations and real conversations that I had in a classroom with kids. But it also has artwork and some writing pieces written about space or painted about space by Pakistani students. The COVID picture that you are seeing in this book is actually done by a 14 year old girl here in Pakistan. So she made this and I was like, oh my God, it's so cute. I really want to use it somewhere where it like really deserves to be. And I was like, wow, it would be a perfect magazine cover.
[00:50:02] Speaker A: It shows how far you've come. You know, you. You mentioned that passion isn't enough. Well, money isn't enough either.
[00:50:11] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:50:11] Speaker A: So we need the resources. We need the things that comes from money or supporters or something in order to do more outreach and education for the girls, for people in rural communities. We're doing Astronomy for the blind. All these different things. It's absolutely necessary to, to have these resources, to have the money to acquire these things.
[00:50:35] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:50:36] Speaker A: But having money by itself, with no passion behind it doesn't do anything. It just doesn't accomplish anything. And you can look at anybody who's done great things. You mentioned Elon Musk and SpaceX. You know that he didn't go into that because he thought, well, this is a great way to make more money.
He had the money and he was able to follow his passion.
[00:50:58] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:50:59] Speaker A: Whatever you think of Elon Musk, who is somewhat controversial and that is really what makes things happen. So this is why I have been doing for so long programs based on the passion of people like you and people in every country around the world, Jean Pierre and others who are doing these things just out of the passion. And they get a little money. But the p. You cannot buy passion.
[00:51:29] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:51:29] Speaker A: And there is nothing that makes a bigger difference.
So you are very wealthy in that regard.
Even if it's not enough, much of the time and more is needed. But that's, that's my mission now. You know, we'll. We will stay in touch and we'll collaborate. And next time you come to the United States, you'll let me know. Maybe I'll get to Pakistan. We'll see.
And we will work together. Because you mentioned many things that you need that I have worked on trying to make happen. If I had the money, it would go towards empowering people like you and everybody else around the world, because that's where the passion is. And so a little more is needed. So I'm doing my best to get to that point just for you and everybody else. Yeah. Having been there myself so many times.
So I want to thank you for really this heartfelt, very important session. I mean this is something that so many people will be inspired by including the difficulties because you can see that is a challenge but that you, you know, you're showing the way with how to use your passion and even the difficulties, it's all part of it because if there was no challenge everybody else would be doing it. They wouldn't need us.
So we will continue to do what we do like it or not.
Anyway, thank you so much for sharing with us in this session. Really, I think very, very powerful for so many people to see what it takes and how it can be difficult and how you persevere despite that you will encourage others. So thank you for joining us today.
[00:53:24] Speaker B: Thank you for having me. Thank you.
